R/amithedevil

I am not the Original Poster. That was u/throwRA_rorotheMIL. She then created a second account: u/Throwawaydisownedson. She posted in relationship_advice, AmItheAsshole and legaladvice. And her own page.
I had changed letters to names in the previous BORU post here. I used those same names in her update posts for clarity.
Trigger Warning: pre-eclampsia, threatening suicide, psychiatric facility
Mood Spoiler: maddening and wtf
New Updates are marked with *****\*
Original Post: March 9, 2023
Title: My (F 50) Daughter in law (24F) gave birth and doesn't seem to want a relationship with me, making it difficult to have a relationship with my son (31M) and new granddaughter
Hello Reddit, TLDR: I'm looking for advice on how to build a relationship with my daughter in law, and get over the rift she's causing since giving birth.
My son (David, 31) has been married to my daughter in law (Bea, 24?) since September of 2020. Due to the pandemic I never really got to know her because they only dated for about a year before they got married, and I didn't know about her until they had dated for about 6 months.
I love my son very much, but I feel like our relationship has been rocky since they git married. He has a daughter from a previous relationship who is 10, and since they got together I haven't had the same relationship with her. I know this is partially because he moved out of my house (very suddenly without really saying anything I may add), and I no longer get her on his weekends. I try to get them to bring her to visit when they have her, but usually I only see her once a month or so, and lately it has felt like she has been more distant when she visits. I think this is because Bea says negative things about me around her, and I find that unfair.
They just had a baby at the end of January. She was induced due to pre eclampsia and in labor for 3 days before having a c section. I had been in an accident a few weeks prior and don't have a vehicle, and my son refused to pick me up to be there for the labor at all or to see the baby in the hospital, but her parents got to see the baby and were in the parking lot the entire time. I called him while she was in labor a few times, but on the second day after her water broke I called him and heard her snap at him to get off the phone and he refused to accept any calls after that. I just wanted to know thst the three of them were okay though! She was in the hospital 2 days after the c section, and they wouldn't stop to visit me on their way home after the birth because she was hurting, even though she had pain killers she could have taken and she "didn't feel right" according to my son. This is when I became concerned she had PPD. My daughter ended up picking up her prescriptions and some groceries for them and got to see the baby that night (her and Bea have a relationship that is apparently pretty good).
I was supposed to visit a couple days after they got home, but she ended up insisting something was wrong and went back to the doctor who apparently sent her to the hospital. My son told me they diagnosed her with post partum preeclampsia, but I was pretty certain that that was only something that happened during pregnancy and went away after birth so I was pretty sure he was confused. The day after they admitted her again, 5 days after the baby being born with everyone meeting her but me, was my birthday. I called her around 8 that morning to see what was really going on but she didn't answer. A while later my son called me and wished me a happy birthday and asked why I had called Bea. I admit I snapped at him and said SHE should be returning my call, because I called HER. I hung up on him and maybe 5 minutes later she called me.
I told her she should have called me and that I wanted to hear her voice and hear from her what was going on since my son gets confused. I then asked her if this was a mental or physical issue, and she went silent before saying physical. I asked of she was sure, and she got kind of snippy and said they had padding on her bed because she was a seizure risk and she couldn't be alone with her newborn, so she was pretty sure. I didn't comment on her tone because I was sure she was stressed.
She was released her the next day, and they came and visited me while I was at my daughters watching her two kids on their way home so I could see the baby. I offered her some pillows to sit on (my son said she "basically gave birth both ways", even though I knew this wasn't true I wondered if she had some soreness that made him think this), and she refused my hospitality saying she was fine and felt pretty good.
Two weeks later my son picked me up and brought me to their home to visit. I stayed for a few hours, and she didn't really make any effort to talk to me. She was just quiet and sat on the couch. When my son took me home I asked why she was so unhospitable, and he said I had been rude while she was in the hospital. That she shouldn't have had to call me, and that I shouldn't have asked if it was a mental or physical problem because he had already told me it was physical. He also said I shouldn't have posted anything on Facebook before her about the baby being born, and that I was rude when he called to make me take it down. She doesn't post on social media very often so I didn't think it would be a big deal.
He hasn't picked me up to see the baby because he says he needs to be there to help with the baby, and they won't bring the baby to me because he says the baby isn't allowed in my house.
I told my son I'm planning to quit my job to babysit for them, but I haven't even gotten her return to work date and she hasn't once thanked me for doing it. Overall I feel like she's holding onto some very petty things and is using them to keep me from my son and granddaughters. I want a relationship with her, but I am missing some critical bonding time with the baby and I am going to struggle to forgive her for it. Especially over petty nonsense she won't even bring up to talk to me.
I'm really wanting to send a text and lay all my feelings out for her and just hash it out, but I understand there are probably cultural differences at play with all of this too, so I could use some advice on what to say.
Relevant Comment: (I took out some from my original BORU Post for length.)
Commenter: Lady, if you don't pull your head out of your ass, you're not going to be part of their lives at all. You're not owed nearly any of what you seem to think you are. When it comes to their baby, they don't owe you crap.

1. Your son had two priorities when his wife was in labor. His wife and their baby. Not you. He didn't have time to come pick you up or talk to you on the phone. Have you ever heard of a taxi cab?
2. She shouldn't have to take a pain pill just so they can stop by and see you on their way home. How incredibly selfish of you. They did the right thing and went straight home.
3. Are you seriously questioning a doctor's diagnosis? Do you really think it's appropriate to ask her if it's physical or mental? Are you mental?
4. You're lucky anyone called you back at all. They are tired and are learning how to care for their newborn and that is after your DIL had a complicated labor and delivery and complications after birth. No one has the emotional bandwidth to deal with your entitlement.
5. You inconvenienced your son and had him pick you up and drive you home. Again, taxi, Uber, Lyft were better options. Then you're complaining his wife, who is exhausted and still healing was inhospitable. I'm guessing she was saying plenty to you in her head but was to polite to actually verbalize it.
6. Do they even want you babysitting their baby? Did they actually ask this of you or did you just decree that this is what is happening?
7. You do not post baby news on Facebook without the parents permission. You were rude and overstepping.
8. If you want to send them a text, send them a sincere apology for being a pushy, entitled, pain in the ass and promise you'll behave better in the future.

OOP's response:
I'm a grandparent and do deserve to be in my grandchildrens life. I also deserve not to have my eldest granddaughter turned against me. Saying they owe me nothing is incorrect, and courts would agree with that. I love them both so I don't want it to come to that, but I am OWED that.

1. If he would have came the first night before she was in real labor he wouldn't have needed to talk to me. We don't have taxi cabs, and the uber would have been well put of my budget.
2. She refused to take any of the pain killers once discharged, period. That was selfish of her. And I had food for them too, so my son wouldn't have had to cook. It wasn't just for me to see the baby.
3. No, I was question if my son had the right information. He's relayed wrong things before.
4. I understand that from her perspective after reading some of the comments. However in my family it's just common to call back regardless especially after having a baby. I see it's a cultural difference.
5. I can't uber to where they live otherwise I would be there every day! If that was an option I woukd have definitely jumped on it instead of having him pick me up, but uber isn't I their tiny town.
6. I told my son after I heard Bea telling my daughter about her struggle to find reputable daycare without a year long wait and how she was scared for the safety of her baby. They won't have to worry if I watch her!
7. My son just said not to post pictures. I didn't realize announcing I was a grandma again woukd be a big deal. I deleted it.
8. I told my son I was sorry for hurting her feelings when he told me. I've always apologized to him when he's told me I've done something wrong in her eyes, whether I think it was wrong or not. I don't want to hurt her feelings ever. I want her to know she doesn't have to run to my son though, she can come to me. And I want a chance to explain myself to her.

Post in Legal Advice: March 24, 2023 (2 weeks later) (post is deleted)
I'm seeking advice on getting grandparent rights in Indiana. My son has two daughters with two different women. The oldest is 10, and he and her mother were never married (no custody agreement, they just have an informal agreement). The youngest is almost 2 months old, and he and her mother are married.
I was under the impression that any grandparent could petition for custody/visitation in the US, but the way I'm reading it I can't unless my son is incarcerated or they aren't married? Is this correct?
What do I need to do to seek joint custody of my granddaughters? What do I need to build a solid case? I've already tried resolving this without going this drastic, but his wife doesn't want to work with me.
Commenters point out that she does not qualify for grandparent's rights in this scenario- she saw them at Christmas and they have to able parents:
I was under the impression that grandparents rights were for when a parent is keeping a child from having a relationship with the grandparents? Visitation would be more then once every 3 months or once a month wouldn't it? I don't feel like there is much of a relationship left with any of them to torpedo. So if I sacrifice a relationship with them to have a relationship with my granddaughters that would be fine."People draw attention to her previous post and that she's angry her son moved out:
I CAN'T travel to them currently - if I could I would be over there as often as I could be. I have apologized even though I don't think I was wrong. If she felt slighted by anything I said I apologized for it. Really, though, I don't think it should matter. You don't use kids as pawns. I can have a relationship with my granddaughters without her - or I should be able to. That's what I thought grandparents rights were for. To make sure parents couldn't stop an essential relationship with grandparents without a damn good reason (like abuse, drug use, etc). Also. He didn't need my permission to move. I just didn't appreciate that he gave no indication he was leaving.
"I have apologized for everything she felt I did wrong, against my better judgement. I don't feel like I shoukd have to continue to beg. My son says shes not preventing me from seeing them and appreciates my apologies, but I still haven't seen my grandchildren."
Update Post: March 30, 2023 (3 weeks from OG post)
Well, I apologized to my daughter in law for all the things my son listed. Since I had received feedback about it being my son's job to "handle" his family I told him my apologies to pass along, and then I waited. However, I got no response from Bea. No thank you, no trying to bury the hatchet, nothing.
So, last Friday I made an appointment with an attorney to discuss grandparents rights and had that appointment on Tuesday. The lawyer told me I had a good chance with my older granddaughter, but would likely get no where with the baby. I filled out some paperwork to get the process started, but Tuesday night I was questioning if I was doing the right thing. I called one of my friends to discuss, and was seriously considering not moving forward with it after talking to her.
Then yesterday I received this message from Bea:
"[Me] this is [Bea] I just wanted to let you know that [friend] told us you're intending to go for grandparent rights, and also shared everything you've had to say about me. Let me first say that I have not once kept the either of the girls from you, and I certainly have not kept [son] from you. He is a grown ass man, and if he wanted to talk to you he was free to. You have not asked to come over and visit since [son] picked you up - you cannot expect us to 1- read your mind or 2 - drop everything and come pick you up. We have a new baby, and we have our own lives. I also have not said a word to you about what happened during delivery/postpartum, because I have no energy to argue with you. [Son] said you apologized, and I told him I appreciated it (even though it was NOT a real apology. You apologize for what you did to hurt my feelings, not that my feelings were hurt). I don't have time for your drama. For the record, though, what you said was absolutely disgusting. I almost died - it had nothing to do with my mental health. Since you have decided to go for grandparents rights, we will have no direct contact with you. All contact will need to go through our lawyer. You have been removed from my Facebook. You are not permitted to post any pictures you have been sent of my child on social media, and [older granddaughters mom] feels the same way regarding [older granddaughter]. We intend to have something written up by our and sent to you by the end of the week regarding this, and ceasing contact with us. I assume we will be servered with your visitation paperwork this week as well. You will get no pictures or phone calls going forward. In fact, you will be blocked.
I also hope you realize you will absolutely lose this case. Your house is not suitable to live in, and you would have to be able to pass a drug test. When you lose, we will not resume contact with you. You lost your chance at being apart of our kids lives by deciding to go to the most nuclear option instead of just communicating with us."
I tried to respond to her and tell her that I didn't want to go through with it anymore and I reacted pit of anger, but she wouldn't answer texts or calls - so I assume I really am blocked. I called my son to tell him about the text she sent, and he said he knew about it and it was a lot nicer then what he wanted to send me.
So, that's where I'm at at this point. I'm going to show my lawyer the text so that it can show how unwilling to forgive and to work with me she is, and hopefully it will resolve quickly so I can at least get visitation rights with my oldest granddaughter.
Edit to add: I dont appreciate the nasty messages I have received or the barrage of nasty comments. I admit I made a mistake, but now this is my only option. It's clear that most of the responses from reddit are from those of young people not from my generation, as I have gotten different responses in other online support groups from people my own age who are also grandparents, many from my own culture.
Relevant Comments: (I again removed some that were in my OG BORU post)
Ummm the drug test?
"She says that I would have to pass a drug test. I use medical marijuana to help with a chronic illness, but it is still illegal where I live."
"I am quitting entirely since this is a possibility [getting in trouble]."Why tf is your daughter a better mother?"Because they need to have better cultural examples. For instance, the oldest mother is also not from our culture/race, and her hair is very different from her daughters. She has no idea how to take care of her hair! It's always a mess. My daughter in law has taken some initiative in doing and styling her hair, but she's still not great at it. The girls need someone who can teach them how to handle basic things like taking care of their skin and hair. Oldest hair has been something I have encouraged them to let me handle long before daughter in law came into the picture. Not taking care of a child's hair is a form of neglect. My daughter knows how to do those things because her hair and skin are much closer to theirs and she can handle it with her own children."One last gem:
I dont feel I deserve to be treated better, but equal. We are both equally important in my son's life. She is obviously more important in her daughters life right now, but without me that baby wouldn't be here. I would drop the grandparents rights case if I wasn't cut off - I reacted out of anger and desperation, but now it's the only option since I'm cut off."
A few people pointed out there is a post that seems like it is from the daughter's perspective on JUSTNOMIL, but OOP of that post has requested it not be re-shared. It has also been deleted.
However, some highlights include:
- MIL threatens suicide because "they turned the whole family against her and won't let her see her granddaughters." Is placed in psychiatric care for 72 hours and released.
- MIL called CPS and said they were starving and neglecting their infant. CPS had to show up.
- MIL also says OOP is holding her husband hostage and police show up
- Thankfully the police and CPS see there is nothing wrong and all charges are dropped
- OOP states she and husband are going to try to move
******NEW Post: May 22, 2023 (2.5 months from OG Post. New Username)****\*
Title: AITA for removing my son from my will after our relationship ended?
I really don’t think I’m wrong, but I just need reassurance that I’m doing the right thing.
I (F 50s) have a son (David, 30s) who is married to Bea, 20’s. They have a daughter who is 4 months old, and my son has a daughter from a previous relationship who is 10.
Bea & I had a falling out after their baby was born, and my son and granddaughters got caught in the crossfire. The falling out happened in March, and I know I did and said things I wasn’t proud of, and although she hasn’t apologized I’m sure she feels the same way. It would be too long to go over the history, but at the most extreme point I did consult a lawyer for grandparent rights. During this time, my son had no contact with me, but when I dropped the grandparents rights case I asked for things to go back to normal. My son expressed that he wanted things to go back to normal, but that a lot of damage had been done and he really didn’t know if we could go back to normal.
For Mother's Day, my daughter decided to take me out to dinner, and she begged David to go and bring the baby (oldest was with mom). David eventually did agree on the condition it wasn’t on mothers day, and He, the baby, and Bea came. Bea was quiet most of dinner, but did talk to my daughter a few times – I guess they have a pretty good relationship. Bea held the baby the entire time, and wouldn’t let me hold or take pictures (part of the falling out was over pictures and Facebook, so I found this to be petty).
Overall, I would have called dinner a success. At the end I hugged my son and told him I was proud of him for putting his foot down and coming to dinner with his daughter, and that I hoped he could continue to do that. Looking back, I know I shouldn’t have said anything. My son called me later that night and told me that he couldn’t continue to have a relationship with me. He said that Bea was their child's mother, and he wouldn’t ever bring the baby anywhere without her blessing. I was drunk when he called because I have had a hard time coping, and I admit I lost it a little bit on the phone call and told him it was despicable that he couldn’t man up to his wife, and that he should have come to see me on mothers day because I am his mother. He ended up hanging up on me.
I called the next day and profusely apologized to him. I know it was wrong of me to have said what I did, and I told him I want a relationship with him. He told me he couldn’t do this with me anymore.
I have been heartbroken ever since, but I understand I guess. I called him last night and told him that I wouldn’t be contacting him or his wife anymore ever, and that I respected that we wouldn’t have a relationship. I also let him know I would be taking him off as my power of attorney and out of my will so he never had to be bothered with anything from me again. I don’t have much anyways.
He got mad at me and called me a sorry excuse of a mother, and now my daughter is saying I’m manipulative. I really don’t understand how I was wrong in giving him what he wants."
Relevant Comments:
People figure out pretty quickly that she is the same woman as the other posts. The scenarios, ages and the way she often spells would with a "k" as a mistype. That and her overall tone.
You need therapy:
"I have been in therapy to help deal with this trauma. I've been told that I need to respect his boundaries so this feels like I am. Why would i want someone who doesn't care about me making medical decisions for me? He's also expressed I'm a hoarder and I don't have money so I don't know why he would want to be bothered with stuff in a will."
Someone links the DIL's post (again, OOP of that requested that it not be re-shared so I will not be posting it here) and asks if she really threatened to commit suicide if she didn't see the baby:
"No, I said I wanted to kill myself because I felt like I had no one. While I was on a hold for 72 hours and received treatment I got set up with my therapist to help deal with some of the trauma both from what's happening now and past issues."
"I had a psychotic break. This is one of the actions I truly regret."
Update Post to AITA: May 24, 2023
AITA woukdnt let me post an update due my post being "violent" so here we are.
after someone posted a link to what i believe is my daughter-in-laws reddit posts and i read some of the verbal beatings i got i did some more reflection. i feel like her perspective of events really helped shift my view. i do want to point out there are several people who told me i was not wrong and that this younger generation has a poor view of family values. i really believe i was judged so harshly because there are so few parents\grandparents on reddit.
i went to my son and dils house but it was mostly empty. i was afraid of this after reading her post and some of the comments. i found the listing and its been posted for almost a week and is currently pending but i cant find where they moved to and all the photos are of the house mostly empty. i suspect they bought it under an llc so i am currently trying to figure out how to find out the name of the llc and then find the house. i talked to one of their neighbors and they said they moved most of their stuff out around the beginning of may so my son kept this from me for quite a while and didnt even bother to mention it at dinner.
i had a meeting with my therapist to help me through this but im still a wreck. my son has just disappeared. i know everyone here is looking through my small 3000 character limited posts and my dils long gripes about me but my son woukdnt do this on his own. his wife is absolutely manipulative but it doesnt change the fact i handled this all wrong and drove him further away. if i woukd have just sought out a relationship with my son ang granddaughters without b i dont think i woukd be here. i should have just played nice. one commentor said it when they asked me “do you want to be right or do you want to have a relationship with your son and granddaughter?” and i choose wrong.
my therapist told me to give myself some healing time before pursuing anything but for now my plan is to just save some money and hire a private investigator to find my son and then rebuild my relationship and his trust so we can work to get him out from under her.
again i recognize i was wrong in some of this. i recognize i was overly demanding and critical – i was wrong in some of this. but i didnt deserve this. people who use kids and grandkids as pawns are evil.
i will probably continue to seek advice but it certainly wont be from this account. and to whoever linked my other posts from my other account and told my dil about this screw you.
Edit- One more comment from OOP when her post was crossposted to AmITheDevil
"screw everyone here. i am far from being a devil. i am not evil. the person who is evil is the one who took my family completely away from me. my dil has completely manipulated my son. ill admit i was far from perfect but i dont deserve what you people are saying about me. i hope one day you guys feel what it's like to lose your child and grandchild to a manipulative person who just wants to cut their family off."
Edit- A reminder that it is against the rules of this sub (and reddit) to comment on the Original Posts or dm OOP.
Edit 2- OOP has now deleted her second account.

Hi! First I just want to say I like your channel and it’s nice to listen during long car rides.
I’m not sure if you’ve done this, but I think you should make an episode dedicated to reading posts from AmITheDevil. The stories there are basically “am I the asshole” times 10. A lot of stories on that subreddit have previously been posted on amitheasshole, and after determining that OP is, in fact, the asshole, the story gets reposted on amithedevil to see if they’re really the worst of the worst. Could spark some really interesting opinions and conversation.
Again, much love!

There is a very common trope on AITA, AITBF, entitled people, etc where the person writing the post either is a twin or else has twin children. Often both. I’m sure 99% of these are troll posts, as they have all the other hallmarks of a BS post.
It’s so pervasive that other subs, like amitheangel and amithedevil often make jokes about the “twin” thing.
The whole situation is interesting, because I wonder how much it affects our trustworthiness in the eyes of others. I’m now cautious to mention my twin, lest I be called a troll. I’ve had messages casting doubt on my truthfulness (on multiple aspects of my post history, not just the twin thing). Being a twin seems to be really unbelievable at the moment.
I’m sure we’ve all had the experience of “no they wasn’t me, that was my twin” “oh haha, very funny” in real life, but now all these twin imposters are making us look like liars online too! I know it’s not that deep, lol, it’s just something I was thinking about. So has anyone else found themselves being doubted because of their twinness?

Repost from AmITheDevil AITA For Confronting My Son’s Manipulative Girlfriend.
my son and i have a very close relationship. We used to go to the markets together every Sunday, cook together, and hang out all the time. I had my son quite young, so we were always friends first mother-son second. He was the first man to ever treat me right. That was, until he met his demon-spawn girlfriend, Lucy - or as I like to call her - Lucifer. Over the years, i’ve had many partners. Whether they were there a week, a day, or a month, my son eventually hated them all. Without my sons approval, I would never continue to see them. Apparently that doesn’t go both ways. It started when he was in grade 11. His friend had an older girlfriend in grade 12, and they were going to prom together. He invited my son as a blind date for his girlfriend’s friend, Lucy. They all went to prom together, and my son and Lucy grew very close. At first I loved her, she seemed to be such a good influence on my baby. She would come over and loved to cook with us, go out with us, the three of us would have so much fun together. Then, the brat decided to come in between us. She started to go behind my back to my son and talk bad about me. What hurts the most is my son never came forward to me about it. I found out the nasty things she had been saying when I was looking through their text messages one night. All her little pathetic bikini photos and xoxo messages were brainwashing my son. I know first hand about this, as my son’s father was not a good influence on me. He was much older, taught me to smoke cigarettes and so happened my pregnancy. I tried to tell my son that this girl was no good for him - she was a mastermind puppeteer playing him like a little puppet on her string, but he wouldn’t listen to the voice of reason, he was lovestruck. When i confronted him, he spoke back to me with serious disrespect. The whole time, every word he was saying sounded straight out of the mouth of Lucy. I was tempted to ask him what his name was - see if he still remembered or if he would just say “Lucy”. His words sounded like a voicemail, so rehearsed and not anything he would say. I tried to tell him he was being brainwashed, but he was so far gone. Yes, Lucy had darker skin, but I love all peoples like they are my own and I do not focus on color. My son accused me of racism, which is just disgusting of Lucy to think. Ever since, he has neglected bringing her around, doesn’t hang out with me, is always with Lucy and barely speaks of his life to me anymore. Apparently this makes me the “bad guy”. I get accused of racism, scolded, humiliated, and my son stolen away from me and i’m in the wrong here. Am I the asshole for being a hands-on parent who actually cares about her child?
Here's where I found this one: https://www.reddit.com/AmITheDevil/comments/13aphxw/aita_for_confronting_my_sons_manipulative/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button

I'm looking for a bot I've seen in action. You make a post and input a link to a post from another subreddit. The bot grabs the text of the post you linked to and posts it as the first comment, in case someone else deletes the original post leaving us with no context to reply about. I tried searching for this but couldn't find any mention.
Examples can be seen in AmITheDevil

this can also count for amithedevil

I read this today on AmITheDevil and holy shit, what is wrong with people.
https://www.reddit.com/AmITheDevil/comments/11v6hh2/my_24m_gf_22f_doesnt_feel_motivated_to_do_more/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
They should totally do this one on the Reddit stories. I would love to see how they react to this fucking guy.

Just got perm banned on amithedevil for “brigading” never heard that term before but I looked it up and I wasn’t but according to them they warned me multiple times and it’s in the sub rules that it’s a permanent ban(it doesn’t say that lol) that sub is usually against the powermods but obviously one bad apple can silence the bunch and also silence me from contacting other moderators😂also I got permanently banned from legaladvice because I had a post that was asking what kinda lawyer I should contact for my mom. I was told that I’m mentally deranged and need to seek help for posting that? Like bruh I’m just trynna help my mom get a lawyer after being harassed my b